coffee forum, ?????, ?????, fresh coffee beans and tea house

[nyl]

boylah,
in regards to your beans inquiry, yes the resting makes a big different esp in the first week. the beans start releasing CO2 right after they are roasted. people sometimes refer to the shots being too 'gas-y' , meaning too much of the co2 is brewed into the shot. and sometimes you'd see big funnel under an naked portfilter during the extraction , but i havent seen that on a la pavoni.

since there are more co2 trapped in a fresher bean than a rested bean, the puck expands more when it's fresh. thus frequent adjustment in grinder settings is needed esp for the first few days. after a few days when the gas get settled, you get more consistent shots like the situation you are in right now.

some beans are more gasy than others, roast level also matters. it is now down to your taste / experience to set routine of your own.

most people try to avoid it , but afterall it's subjected to your own taste. I personally like to have my beans rested for 3-5 days before use.

[alexfan]

[boy_lah]

Interesting...I never knew that. I thought it's best to use as fresh as possible ie. 1-2 days after roast. This seems to mirror my experience more than...first 2-3 days seems a bit 'too' fresh. After 3-4 days seems to be the sweet spot. Nice one! Next batch of beans landing soon, will see this still holds. You guys are extremely helpful! Ta!

A question then...how do you guys store the fresh beans until 4th day? My fresh beans arrive in bags sealed with one way valve - should I leave it out so CO2 can escape? or do you put the sealed bag in an air tight container/bag? Or do you open the bag then put into air tight bag?

Finally, I'll like to return the favour/your help by sharing what I've picked up online/seem to work for me. My current routine includes:
- warm up portafilter in group head
- bleed false pressure by opening milk tip for 2-3 secs
- lift lever to just before water enters head and lock portafilter and then lift all the way up

But I've also started doing a few things to 'fine' tune my routine...

- once at brew temp, i perform 4-5 short flushes (small water flushes) before locking portafilter. I find this really helps make my first pull better. In the past, I found my first pull was always not as 'full' a pull as the second or later pulls, since the resistance on my first pull starts at 90% up and not 100%. This step helps make the resistance on my first pull at 100%. By second or subsequent pull, the air that was there in first pull is no longer since first pull fills it with water. So this only helps with first pull.

- with portafilter/grind locked, do active pre-infusion/mini fenelli ie. lift and drop the lever until i feel some pressure and pull back up, do it a few times before full pull. Idea here is you're adding a bit more water to shot and pre-infusing at same time. Some people talk about disturbing puck by this. I'm not sure that's true. Still playing/deciding on this.

- leave my milk valve open during initial boil...close it once fluid stops coming out and steam starts. This helps remove any air pocket. I'm still undecided on this step. I find the active infusion step more useful.

[alexfan]

[boy_lah]

Was talking to Ah Sing today and he seems to suggest beans is good from 4hours old but it's harder to brew well that fresh. As it stales, it becomes easier. And if done well, beans during first 24 hours is divine?! Will have to give it a go.

[nyl]

Yup totally, gassy beans make it more difficult in brewing. Somehow it is less affected on a la pavoni. I don't get the foamy crema with la pavoni like I would get on my gaggia.

[boy_lah]

Ok - maybe i've dialed it in since when i first started here but making drinks using 24 hour old beans was fine. Maybe 1 ish streams not perfect one but no major splurting. Maybe also coz i'm trying 14g atm and i tamp a tad lighter than usual. No idea but things seems to have settled for me.

My more recent shots...first two are same bean. Last one different bean. I'm now trying to dial things in by taste the espresso and trying to aim for most complex/layered cup. Not sure i know what i'm doing but that what i'm trying as opposed to a muddle cup.

[boy_lah]

An update...today's coffee was VERY gassy! Maybe first day or two ok, but 3rd day gassy? No idea. I think best I wait another day or two until gas runs out. Hard to make good coffee atm.

Also, Ah Sing suggested I use 14g and wait (even if it takes 10-15sec) until i see first drop before pulling. With gas atm, I can't tell if that much preinfusion is better than my usual way. Will report back.

[nyl]

i've experienced that before, but couldnt find much info about why it gets gassy after the first 1-2 days.

my own theory is that the beans are being too gassy for the first day or two, the puck is jam packed when it expands and creates a similar result you get using a finer grind. There are very little rooms in the area for the gas to release.

then from 3-4 days on it gets less gassy and it spares more room for expansion and for the gas to release which results in a 3rd day cone extraction.

i could be completely wrong on this. just my wild speculation.

[alexfan]

[nyl]

let me share my la pavoni shot, i think i am pulling tighter than yours[/img]

[nyl]

here is my first pull after i brought the la pavoni back from storage. grind setting can be adjusted a little more but i think this is good enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11xieNUaQ1o



PS. keep in mind this is a lever machine, the reason why extraction is leaned to one side was because i had my body weight on the group and the group part was slight bend down.

bean was roasted on the 23rd, so it's about 5 days from now. as you can see it's still kinda gassy on the crema. after all it was still a good shot, a better shot than my gaggia classic's.

i made a 2nd shot after the shot in the video. but the machine was already overheated and the acidity was gone.

[boy_lah]

Ya, looks like you're getting a much more intense pull. I would get an intense pull if i stuck to my 15g (see cup in previous page) but recently trying Ah Sing's 14g and waiting till i see a drop. To be honest, look aside, the taste of 14g is a bit meh to me. I will revert to 15g tomorrow and see. i'll let you know if it's the new bean or 14g just too mild for me.

[alexfan]

This cup was pulled yesterday, 14g pretty light roast Bolivia bean.

[boy_lah]

Nice cup alex. For me, I think it's a matter of re-dialing it in (and diff beans i'm sure) using 14g instead. Tonight's cup getting closer to what i got with my 15g setting before.




A couple of cups before - 14g....still dialing in....